D prim

[bnhasak]

I assume most of you guys are in LA having a blast, but quick question for anyone checking here. I grew up playing G prim, but switched to D prim a few years back.

I just never feel as comfortable playing the D as I did the G. Should I abandon it and just play what feels more "natural", or is the better sound quality of my D prim more advantageous than faster fingers on a lesser quality G?

Also, if I were to switch back to G, who would be a good maker to get one off of in PGH area. My D prim was made by Mike Turcic of Allsion, PA.
I love the instrument, but like I said...it just doesn't feel as comfy as my G.
Thanks. :cool:

[lopov74]

frank valentich makes a good prim . a few of the kids i teach use them they sound good and are built well . if you want his address or phone # drop me a PM .

[SRVT]

E-prim dude....E-prim....

[Clive]

Originally posted by SRVT:
E-prim dude....E-prim.... ditto


but if you're looking for a good G prim, you should consider Lado Krklec from New York (correct me if i'm wrong). I have one of his G prims and it's awesome

[bnhasak]

Thanks for the suggestions! I have never played E prim before. What is the sound difference compared to a G? I have noticed with my D prim that it better suited for 2nd prim parts in ensemble performance. Would an E have the same versatility as a D?

Why the strong recommendation for the E?

Thanks again.

[mbecar1]

E prim is built on almost the exact same fret scale as a D prim. so going to E would not help you in the comfort and ease of play department. i have stated before that Walter Naglich is building the best tambure being built in the world today. i just took 2 G prims that he built out to Steelton for some people out there and i was impressed by the sound that they had. they were probably the first G prims that i have ever heard that didn't sound shrill and thin. if you want his contact info PM me.

[Rudy Kristich Buffalo]

Recommend you try the exact instrument you are having someone make for you.

Tension of strings is a big differene between a D and E prim. E's tend to have more tension. Also, the gage (thickness) of the strings change... E is thinner than D. So what feels comfortable (TENSION & THICKNESS) to you, might not to someone else.

Also, width of the fret board, I have noticed seems to be a bit wider on a D prim (at least ones I have played). This again you may like more or less.

E strings being thinner, a note played on a E PRIM first string will sound shriller than the same not on a D prim. This being Part of why E prims sound better with E (A) instruments bugs,etc than with D tuned instruments. So consider what instruments you will be playing with.

Finally, taking an E prim and putting D prim strings on it, you will not get the same tension you would get on a D prim(shorter instrument). So don't think it will feel the same if you buy an instrument and change your mind and try to use another instrument's strings.

As for G prim, never played one, so can not compare. I have found you get used to what you play the most, but that can be a problem if you try to go back and forth between and E adn D prim for example...like I do (on some kolo's I just have to have those open strings on the D prim).

Hope this helps

[bnhasak]

Rudy, that is great advice. I really appreciate the breakdown of differences. What you said makes perfect sense and totally explains my "issues" with the D prim. I have shorter hands/fingers and the wider fret board limits my speed and ease. Also the thicker D strings require more pressure compounding my problem with my stubby fingers not reaching as well.

I think whenever I can afford it the E prim is the way to go.

Thanks a bunch.

Also thanks mbecar for the recommendation on makers.

[morovich]

There is always a good deal of debate when it comes to tambura tuning. One really must understand the function of each in order to make a decision about which tuning, which maker and which gages to use. Talking about G prims always will raise an eyebrow!!

I only have a use for G prims when writing/performing certain large orchestra tambura scores. For instance, Walter Kolar at Duquesne University and some of his contemporaries wrote scores using them. Many of his compositions used a very wide range of notes from low G to high G. BIG G or D major accordations were written into the opening and finale.

In my opinion, as far as playing in a smaller group goes, one really doesn't need G prims because they do have a tendency to be a bit tinny without some major tonal support.

D prims come in handy when playing western and far northeastern Croatian tunes that are traditionally sung in G and D. This is a remnant of the old Farkas system (generally speaking).

E prims are good for eastern Croatian (Slavonija) some Bosnian and Vojvodina songs and dances, because generally, the songs were sung in that pitch and other wind instruments (gajde, dude) were tuned there.

Most Serbian American bands play in D/G tuning and (someone correct me if I am mistaken) the Popovich Brothers played in that tuning. So a loud D prim will come in handy when playing the South Chicago style tambura becar tunes.

I play a G brac made in Europe, because I sing in G and D more than A and E. So ask yourself which style of tambura you play most and buy and instrument that best fits that sound.

[mbecar1]

yes!! the Popovich Brothers did play with D/G instrumentation.

[Clive]

the quality of music increases with E. Just like in a musical arrangement, the more sharps/flats you add to a piece (i.e keychange) the more brilliant the piece sounds.

I play A/E and D/G but mostly A/E. I prefer A/E as do many people i know

[The Curious Tamburas]

Clive and Anybody Else Who Cares To Argue This Point,

You must be jokirinaround. I challenge anyone (without perfect pitch and without looking) to tell me that music “sounds” better (more aurally appealing) because there are sharps or flats in the key signature. The reason I say “without perfect pitch” or “without looking” is because, that way, someone could be influenced by his own preconceived opinion or cheat by looking and make the claim just to support his own opinion.

Of course key changes make arrangements sound better, but if you’re claiming that changing the tonal area with the addition of sharps or flats makes music sound more “brilliant” (clear and distinctive tone, more aurally appealing, a higher quality timbre) then I think you’re all wrong.

First of all your analysis would, by definition, make every piece written in C or its relative minor Am sound less “brilliant” than any other piece of music not written in those keys.

Secondly, it’s not the key that a piece of music is written in that makes it sound aurally appealing, it’s the combination of the tuning of the instruments with the key that the piece is written in that makes the piece sound good or bad on a particular instrument.

Try Eb or F on an E prim, or Ab (G#) on any tuning of tambura.

It’s the technical skill of the musician to be able successfully perform the piece on his chosen instrument (no matter what the tuning); and it’s the interpretive musical skill (the “musicality”) that the instrumentalist possesses.

And I understand that a lower pitched instrument sounds more mellow to the human ear when played in its open position, and that the quality of craftsmanship in building the instrument affects the tone, but to say that one key is better than the other is ludicrous. And that instruments tuned to E and A are better than instruments tuned in G is ridiculous.

Of course, at a certain point, the higher the pitch, the more shrill that will sound to the human ear, that’s physics, but this “E” versus “G” tuning argument is just a bunch of bulldrek (if I say bull**** - Horsovec's predefined censor removes the ****.

By the way, if someone hasn’t already IMed or emailed you, the 2006 Ganza is at the Marriott Detroit at the Resonance (oops, I mean Renaissance) Center.

[Vjeko]

I have to tune my bugarija to F# now for added brilliance. Thanks Clive ;)

[Tominellay]

...off topic, but re The Curious Tamburas's signature line...and, btw, I wish this were original:


With all the sadness and trauma going on in the world at the moment, it is worth reflecting on the death of a very important person which almost went unnoticed last week.

Larry LaPrise, the man who wrote "The Hokey Pokey", died peacefully at age 93.

The most traumatic part for his family was getting him into the coffin. They put his left leg in. And then the trouble started...

[The Curious Tamburas]

Touche Tominellay - BUT

Actually LaPrise died in 1996 at the age of 83. The site that this appeared on just does blogs on an eclectic mix of subjects.

Although - with all the possible verses, it could have taken that long to get him buried.

It was very funny though.

By the way, do you know what the flip side of the Hokey Pokey was? Just Curious.

[Clive]

gees...u make one post and the dont leave you alone. Back in the day i was on the D/G system. When we phased in A and E i asked a person why, what's the difference and that is what they told me more or less.

TCT where did u e-mail me info? i dont recall getting anything

[The Curious Tamburas]

Clive,

Take it easy buddy. I didn't say that I gave you the 2006 Ganza hotel info - I just didn't want to be repetitive, if someone else already had.

Are you really coming?

I'm Curious

By The Way - a while ago you mentioned that you were playing in a non-tambura band, is it Zabavna or non-Croatian?

[Clive]

zabavna...and that's the reason i can't go to Adult Tamfest in Jersey in November.

[The Curious Tamburas]

Clive,

POOR EXCUSE – you should have said that you got stopped at the border (that always worked before.) Unless you mean that your Zabavna band is playing that weekend? Then that's good. The people on this website are just too serious about TAMBURA. Don't they realize that Croatian music is MORE than just Tambura?

Wait a minute TCT - this IS TAMBURA-land. ((SET - I mean "s-h-i-t") - Now I sound like a Leno alter ego talking to himself.)) (Math majors - watch for the double parentheses.)

I'm sure that Tominellay would agree with my immediate previous statement. What is a musician, whose primary instrument is not a tambura, doing posting on this site?

WATCH IT - TCT - you're sounding more and more like one of those guys from Tamburaweb. (More Leno-Speak - or maybe even Marcel-Speak - Look out ThE pHaNtOm.)

BTW – What’s your Zabavna band name? And what are you guys playing?

Also – Shouldn’t you be studying for a test or sleeping?

I’m Curious.

[Clive]

TCT - The Band is called "Vis Domovina" (vocalni instrumentalni sastav).

They've been around roughly 12 years. I just joined last year (band reformed.) If you're interested they have 2 CD's out.

As for the music we play, everything, Narodona, Zabavana, Croatian Rock, English Rock, Italian, Jazz. Inspektor has heard them play, he wanted them for his wedding except they were already booked. But yeah great bunch of guys, i'm very lucky to be playing with them.

We cater to many crowds. And yes i do have a gig with them during Tamfest.

[jokirinaround]

No...Inspector just kept moving his wedding until he was sure you were booked on that day.

jka

[Clive]

lol yeah that must be it!. No at the time i was still playing in a band with my Father and a few of his friends. It was a few months after his wedding i got the call to join.

But thanks for the insights Jka :D hah